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an instance of [[distributed press]]
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[[benedict lau]]
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[[hypha]]
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interested in building a tool that publishes through many different protocols
- sharing social messages seamlessly
- [[flancian]]
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[[paul frazee]]
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[[guo]]
- matters.news
- serving mostly chinese communities
- looking at [[ipfs]], [[hypercore]]
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working on a protocol similar to [[unwalled garden]], but also thinking of integrating [[rss]]
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[[vera]]
- working on [[agora]]
- background in distributed social systems, worked on (sp?) status, before mastodon
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[[fauno]]
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[[paul frazee]]
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[[distributed vs federated]]
- a bit stuck here currently
- the way to conceptualize
- [[federated]] ~ [[mastodon]]
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[[distributed]] ~ [[ipfs]] mesh
- completely open system, if you’re in the mesh you’re in
- technologically, user experience wise is great
- trying to figure out how to deal with the [[cost]] structure
- in the case of social media, you’re making your own twitter
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how do you get economies of scale worked in there?
- [[filecoin]]?
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[[gateway model]]
- ipfs gateway: there is more than one of them
- if your mesh contains social data, you get a social network
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[[ben]] what are the costs involved?
- [[paul]] unsure but they all seem associated to a side business so far
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advantages
- ?
- serverless clients are possible
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[[ben]]
- less well maintained gateways become issues for user experience
- censorship
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[[guo]] yes, gateways become a centralized point
- gateway should be a backup after serverless client
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[[paul frazee]]
- spent 6-8 months working on a social network back in [[beaker]]
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some stuff that stops you:
- links that are a new protocol are an issue
- ux killer on stuff like twitter
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didn’t have a push messaging system back then
- didn’t want to have to deal with spam
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ux killer: no notifications unless mutual follow
- try to bring in positive properties of the system
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[[flancian]]
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[[ben]]
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[[guo]]
- content feed + social graph as a distributed publication and social network
- people can store their content feed and social graph anywhere
- user control their data
- search
- separating storage and aggregation
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[[paul frazee]]
- database vs datamesh
- federation puts application logic in the wire protocol
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[[flancian]]
- [[datamesh]] should probably be treated as a commons
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[[guo]]
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[[flancian]]
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[[paul]]
- how do you end up in a situation in which governance is required?
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[[guo]]
- datamesh seems like it does not require governance, but the aggregator does
- (interlay vs overlay?)
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[[ben]] aether (sp?)
- distributed reddit
- distributed moderation
- liquid democracy-like
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[[ben]]
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we need to agree on:
- schemas
- distribution protocol
- aggregator censorship
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what happens when your computer ends up hosting hate speech?
- you can stop the flow in the mesh and that applies negative evolutionary pressure
- [[paul]] aether does [[default allow]], I do [[default deny]]
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[[flancian]]
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[[guo]]
- choice of markdown vs html
- chose html over markdown, it supports arbitrary media
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[[encryption]]
- exclusive content
- hard to define protocol-level encryption standard
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bake the encryption message into the html
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[[ben]] decided to first publish/store things as html
- most people want to have something ready-to-publish
- but a consumption pattern arises: you copy/paste whole articles
- on the dweb there is an opportunity for this as we can publish different formats of the same concept
- get content in more than one format
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[[paul]]
- [[schemas]] in general
- I would describe what you were discussing as "rich text format"
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orthogonal to schemas
- fighting with schemas since [[secure scuttlebutt]]
- pissed off [[rdf]] people
- reached https://ctzn.network/comment
- scuttlebutt: did not impose any schema obligations; disastrous approach
- [[unwalled gardens]]: enforced types
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[[ctzn network]]: urls identifying the schemas with a machine readable format
- rejects messages that don’t comply with the schema
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believe in this approach
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if you don’t, you end up in the tragedy of the commons or failure in collective action (scuttlebutt)
- compatibility with the schema dictates everything you can do
- you have a feature, you add a dependency
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had a post type
- would be nice if you have a topic
- if you are not subscribed to [[cats]], you won’t see it
- but you can’t rely on it as many clients won’t support it
- you might end up spamming old clients
- [[fatal ambiguity]]
- once you see this, schemas start seeming risky to change
- you can do extension points, but would suggest against
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current approach:
- well defined schemas
- people can determine their own schemas
- control the [[ctzn network]] schemas
- can have extension tables
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[[ben]]
- feel like [[scuttlebutt]] has a schema, otherwise you couldn’t have more than one client
- what it lacked, it seems, is versioning?
- how do you manage upgrades?
- [[paul]] the problem is multiple clients controlled by different devs
- [[flancian]] what do you really need for features — usually you’d want to have the minimum minimum schema requirements?
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[[paul frazee]]
- [[web mentions]]: exploring now
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[[unwalled garden]]
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suppose you want to have the ability to have mentions in your comments
- you have to keep parsing for entities if you store text or text-like
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using [[hyperbee]] in [[ctzn]]
- it can list directories or keyspaces in order
- more like a database technology
- for distributed press/unwalled garden: file oriented approach can work over http
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[[guo]] in the comments problem, who owns the post data?
- the post it’s on could ‘own’ it
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the [[comment]] writer could own it
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[[fauno]]
- if we allow for comments, who is responsible for keeping them? hateful comments/censorship/etc
- [[webmentions]]: fascist websites pinging you
- people don’t have time to moderate
- [[ben]] same thing is seen in wordpress
- [[fauno]] web mentions and how to keep bad parties out
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[[flancian]] how will moderation work in [[ctzn network]]?
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[[paul]] would like to have a great answer :)